Women Kicking Ass in Combat Arms

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 01/25/2016 at 22:55 • Filed to: None

1

17

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Burn-Spaz1966-Burn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/25/2016 at 23:11

0

“I totally support women in combat, women being eligible to compete for any position in the military,” former Defense Secretary Gates told Business Insider.

“But I would agree with military leaders there can be no lowering of the standards of the requirements to perform specific jobs, lowering standards will put lives at risk,” Gates added.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Burn-Spaz1966-Burn 01/25/2016 at 23:19

0

I get dusted at the CrossFit gym by women all the time. I think it’s awesome.

BigBlock440 > Burn-Spaz1966-Burn 01/25/2016 at 23:45

1

But if they don’t lower the standards, they’ll get sued by feminazis when a higher percentage of men meet the standards than women. See the PA state police for example, getting sued because “only” 70% of women are able to meet the standard while 90% of men are.

Sam > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 00:13

1

As long as they can meet the same requirements that everyone else has to meet, they shouldn’t have ever NOT been allowed in.

The Transporter > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 00:21

0

If this was just about physical fitness then there really wouldn’t be much of a question.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > The Transporter 01/26/2016 at 00:30

0

?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Sam 01/26/2016 at 00:34

0

If you have time to read the story, toward the end, there is testimony from one of the dudes in the program that the one woman really kicked ass. Still, it’ll take a lot of getting used to for the men. I’m not saying it’s bad or ill advised in any way , just that there will be some real challenges. I’ve served in the Army and whenever there are men and women together, they fuck each other. In the combat arms, this could cause more problems than it would amongst the REMFs.

Kat Callahan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 00:40

0

I’ve said this before and I will say it again: I never heard any woman who wore the uniform when I did ever say, “I want lowered standards.” There were some who said “Honestly, that will never be me,” but not a one said, “Make this easier on me.”

It’s a myth that’s end has finally come.

orcim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 01:12

0

Yes, I agree with you. 1) They fuck each other (since that’s fun) and 2) it causes problems because! they bring their broken life long accumulated cultural adaptations to the service, where they absolutely don’t belong.

I’d argue that if the service was more forward looking, they wouldn’t look at women there as an extra cog in the machine, but an opportunity to change into something *different* that took all the tensions and new dynamics into account. Just as they did when integrating the all-male service early on.

Most people don’t understand the power of culture (not saying you don’t, mind you. Your comments seem informed.) But an operating culture is a D9 in a hamster cage.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > orcim 01/26/2016 at 01:28

0

Thank you, by the way. I try to be informed, and certainly don’t mind being schooled.

When you say, “they bring their broken life long accumulated cultural adaptations to the service...” who’s the “they,” and what would be an example?

Would the results of the culture and training of American police be an example of “an operating culture / D9 in a hamster cage?”

I’ve served with women, though back in the 80s when service was sort of like a tea party with doilies relative to service nowadays. We were a REMF unit and there was invariably drama surrounding the women that I found tiresome at best. I wouldn’t expect that from the (officer) women in the story, but then again, the women I worked with # never could have passed anything like that Ranger course. These women were many of them absolutely pathetic human beings, as were many of the men.

An aside: in Germany, in 1989, I passed the physical fitness test to qualify to apply to Delta Force. I was an E-5, second term. For the run, judging from the taste of the goop I was coughing up, I knew I’d never run harder. But there was also a swim, in BDUs, with an 8-pound SCUBA weight around my middle. I had to swim 200 meters, any way I wanted. I did the backstroke. I’ve never been a strong swimmer and halfway through, my legs started cramping up. I did mind over body, told myself to relax, and finished, when there were a bunch of big, bad grunts who had to literally be rescued from the water. I felt good about that. But I withdrew my application because I wanted to marry another soldier and, 26 years on, I am sure I made the best decision.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Kat Callahan 01/26/2016 at 01:40

1

Boy, I knew a few like that. But I don’t make any conclusions other than that those were some pathetic individuals, purpetraters, drama addicts, shit stirrers. The standards were very low to begin with. This was in the 80s, so who knows today?

The women who were purpetraters and drama queens, I made it clear my disgust for them and they knew it. I would literally curl my upper lip, so deeply did I loathe them. Not as a class or a gender, but as a group of people who would play a card and get favorable treatment. Now, having said all of that, I have been married 26 years to a woman soldier I met and married during that exact same period of time, and I ran with a group of women every weekend, and the guys were all jealous and were convinced that I was sleeping with all of them. (The guys were pretty shallow also, most of them...) And my wife was one of that group.

I want to be clear: Captain Griest and Lieutenant Haver, the two women in the story, I admire most highly and would follow anywhere and say, “Yes Ma’am, yes Ma’am, three bags full!”

Kat Callahan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 01:45

0

Oh, I knew shitbags. Some of them were women. But a shitbag is a shitbag, and the whiniest of the shitbags were men.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Kat Callahan 01/26/2016 at 01:48

1

At that point in my life, I really wanted a mate for life, and I was probably paying more attention to the women generally. I got what I wanted, more than I deserved, really.

Burn-Spaz1966-Burn > BigBlock440 01/26/2016 at 02:26

1

Well sometimes that what it takes. Even when I was in there were some problems still in the Army about attitudes towards women.(Still Are)

Sexual assault is still a problem.

Means that someone Lied when they took the Oath of Enlistment.

Only problem I have is when equality means losing Brothers and Sisters because standards are lowered.

orcim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 02:36

0

I’m pretty sure I can never school you, sir. And wouldn’t try. Your experience of the Delta requirements is incredibly key, here. They were selecting for a specific physical, mental, (maybe) spiritual, emotional, and, most importantly, an accepting cultural ability in people coming through that gauntlet.

“They” is simply a reference to each of us, and the predominate culture we all came up in. Let’s take a bunch of people raised as Lutheran’s, Catholic’s, etc. and throw them into an integrated service? Think there’s gonna be a problem? I do - only because the world views (and those folk expressing the opposite for those rejecting them) are gonna be counter to good service discipline. Especially if they haven’t had layers of adaptability and flexibility applied to them growing up.

As to the police example, sure. They have their protocols and training, all of which is becoming more threat based and not social based. If you knew a cop in the 60's/70's (like me), the behavior of police now would seem completely alien. They have change their culture. And it shows.

What I was trying to convey was my opinion that cultural systems, basically a basket of behaviors that inform, teach, school, chastise and discipline everyone inside “the basket” as to how to behave and what’s “acceptable” is a *thing.* After all, why is that any 14 year old from a primitive tribe knew everything they needed to survive and thrive (at a baseline, not extreme circumstances modulo experience over the years) without a single school/teacher involved? It’s because their very existence in the system taught them what they needed to know, even information not directly survival/thriving related.

We’re learning machines, the best that ever were, and we don’t need to know how to learn. What we need is a pattern that we can either integrate with, or not, and that pattern includes women as contributing members (with all the complications that implies in the current system, but they aren’t complications in a different system because the new culture accepts, informs and let’s people know how to act/feel.)

My own example is one from corporate life. I hired people that could fit my team’s culture, not “get the job done” per se though they had to do that, too. The services understand this to a T and so they have basic training which reforms/informs/transforms most every single person going through it. What they haven’t done is figure out integrated male/female services would work and then teach that (because the people providing it come from a culture that doesn’t allow that type of thinking.)

The current military culture is geared to a specific range of individual, generally male, no sexual aspects, etc. Physical, mental and spiritual aspects have to be kept the same... absolutely not advocating lower performing people in the service, here. Yet the ability of the military “culture” to accept females is less than stellar. (Which is understandable if you understand the power of culture.)

It’s about creating a culture that can coexist with the differences in a wider range of people - male and female... and in my opinion, only a strong held cultural behavior can do that. And that only comes from the top - bottom up doesn’t work.

(Obviously, this is my 2 bits from the outside, and your mileage may [certainly] vary. Also, sorry to be so long winded. I like this subject, but most people don’t every ask questions. ;) By the way, kudo’s to you for following your heart all those years ago. That is also one of the strongest cultural behaviors you can express from my learning.

The Transporter > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 07:22

0

Physical strenght has very little to do with those jobs. That isn’t the reason why they’ve been barred up to this point.

NJAnon > Sam 01/26/2016 at 21:54

0

Well, stuff takes time. Even to rectify some dumb stuff. Like how there were actual pieces of paper that said minorities (specifically african americans) were unable to fly planes for the armed forces. Or the report saying women couldn’t long ski jump in the Olympics.

Humans....go figure . :P